Robert F. Kennedy Jr. lashed out at Senator Bernie Sanders, a Vermont independent, sparking a heated exchange between the two at the end of the Senate health committee hearing Thursday.
Mr. Sanders pushed Mr. Kennedy again on his past support for the claims that vaccines caused autism. He also mentioned Mr. Kennedy’s praise for Andrew Wakefield, the British scientist whose research fueled speculation that immunizations and autism were linked. His work has since been debunked.
When Mr. Kennedy offered that he wouldn’t “rest on a single study,” Mr. Sanders sought to introduce into the record 16 studies that concluded vaccines do not cause autism.
Mr. Sanders held up the papers and asked, “Are you happy?”
Mr. Kennedy asked the senator if he included an analysis by the Institute of Medicine, indicating that it would support his position. But that report said the body of evidence favored rejecting a direct link between some vaccines and autism.
As Mr. Kennedy tried to elaborate, Mr. Sanders waved his hand to stop him, saying “don’t have a lot of time.”
Later, Mr. Sanders questioned Mr. Kennedy about his previous remarks calling the coronavirus vaccine one the deadliest vaccines ever made. Early estimates found that Covid vaccines and other mitigation measures saved 800,000 lives in the United States, and that Covid death rates were 14 times higher among unvaccinated people compared to those who received the Covid booster shot.
Mr. Kennedy said he drew his conclusion from the Vaccine Adverse Events Surveillance System, which anti-vaccine groups often cite as proof that vaccines cause injuries. But V.A.E.R.S., as the system is known, includes reports from anyone who wants to file a suspected adverse event — without verification. The reports are not proof that an injury or death was caused by a vaccination.
Mr. Sanders again pressed him on whether he disagreed with scientists who have said the Covid vaccine saved lives.
“I’m agnostic because we don’t have the science to make that determination,” Mr. Kennedy responded.
At various times during the exchanges between the two, the ranking Democrat on the health panel said that he shared the views of both Mr. Trump and Mr. Kennedy that the health care system in the United States is broken. It’s a point Mr. Sanders often makes.
“Problem is, their answers will only make a bad situation worse,” Mr. Sanders said, raising his voice as he wrapped up his remarks.
Lastly, the senator asked whether Mr. Kennedy would guarantee health care to every American, protections that many other countries already provide. Mr. Sanders has long fought for Medicare for all.
“I’m going to make America healthier than other countries in the world right now — we’re the sickest,” Mr. Kennedy said, before Mr. Sanders cut him off to repeat his question.
Mr. Kennedy pivoted, addressing Mr. Sanders as “Bernie” and attacking lawmakers who have accepted millions of dollars from the pharmaceutical industry. He accused Mr. Sanders of doing the same. The crowd cheered.
“Oh no, no, no,” Mr. Sanders raised his hand to hush the crowd.
He responded, “I ran for president like you,” adding that he took contributions in his 2020 presidential campaign from employees of drug companies, but stressed that he received “not one nickel of PAC money from the pharmaceutical industry.” More applause ensued.
Mr. Sanders’ face turned red as the two began to yell back and forth, speaking over one another.
Senator Markwayne Mullin, Republican of Oklahoma, cut Mr. Sanders off and accused him of “battering the witness.”
“I’m not battering the witness, I’m trying to get an answer,” Mr. Sanders said, just before the panel’s chairman stepped in to say the committee was running over time.
The chairman, Senator Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana, said in his final remarks that Mr. Kennedy has a lot of influence.
“Now you got a megaphone,” he chuckled. “Maybe you and Bernie, you know, Bobby and Bernie. Of everybody in this room, the two of you have the biggest followings.”
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