On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- FEMA administrator Deanne Criswell
- Rep. Judy Chu, Democrat of California
- Sen. John Barrasso, Republican of Wyoming
- Sen. Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona
- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich
Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: As we begin what’s now day six of the catastrophic fires in Southern California, the situation is still extremely volatile and therefore still very dangerous. The death toll stands at 16, with 150,000 residents under evacuation orders.
The long-term impact on Californians’ health and damage done to the environment are incalculable. The cost to rebuild in California, which boasts the largest economy in America, are impossible to tally at this point.
The causes for the individual fires are under investigation, but scientists say there’s no question that climate change exacerbated the factors leading to these cataclysmic events.
The two big fires, the coastal Palisades Fire and the inland Eaton Fires, are still raging and the National Weather Service has cited red flag wind warnings in the Southern California area through at least Wednesday.
We begin with the very latest from our Jonathan Vigliotti.
(Begin VT)
JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI (voice-over): More than 14,000 personnel from all over California, nine states, as well as Canada and Mexico, have mobilized to the bone-dry hills of Los Angeles, battling four active and sprawling wildfires menacing millions of people across the region.
The massive Palisades Fire, the largest in the city, has grown to nearly 25,000 acres, destroying an estimated 75 percent of Pacific Palisades. Officials say that one-third of the eastern edge of Malibu has been destroyed too. The Palisades Fired now threatens nearby Brentwood and Encino, where additional evacuation orders have been issued.
A brief break in the wind allowed aircraft to gain 11 percent containment Saturday as the region was bombarded with water and flame retarded. But planes were briefly grounded after drones were spotted in the airspace.
In Altadena, the Eaton Fire has destroyed more than 14,000 acres and reduced thousands of homes to ash. That fire is now 27 percent contained. Officials say the rash of fires have burned through more than 40,000 acres and more than 12,000 structures have been destroyed, a city under siege.
L.A. Mayor Karen Bass is now facing calls to resign from a growing number of people who say the city’s response was inadequate.
My question to you is, what explains this lack of preparation and rapid response?
KAREN BASS (D-Mayor of Los Angeles, California): When we are safe, when lives have been saved and homes have been saved, we will absolutely do an evaluation.
JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI: Her own fire chief has said budget cuts hampered firefighting efforts.
KRISTIN CROWLEY (Los Angeles City, California, Fire Chief): We are screaming to be properly funded to make sure that our firefighters can do their jobs.
JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI: The cause of the fires are still under investigation, and the National Guard is on scene to prevent looting and enforce a nightly curfew.
(End VT)
JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI: And red flag warnings are back in effect.
Wind gusts could exceed 50 miles per hour. Meanwhile, officials are preemptively cutting power in some neighborhoods to prevent more fires from sparking, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jonathan Vigliotti reporting from Pacific Palisades, stay safe, and thank you.
We turn now to FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell.
Welcome back to Face the Nation.
DEANNE CRISWELL (FEMA Administrator): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: These Santa Ana winds are forecast to continue into the next week, and that could fuel some of the blazes. What is your biggest area of concern right now?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: You know, with these winds coming back, and them issuing the red flag warnings, you know, these winds change the – the dynamics of this fire.
And so I’m concerned for the safety of our firefighters, concerned for their ability continue to contain this fire. And I want people to make sure that they are listening closely to what local officials are saying, so they can stay safe and they can stay out of harm’s way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I know the winds themselves are rare for this particular time of year, but Los Angeles and the area, they have got a lot of experience with wildfires. They have a lot of regulation and a large firefighting force.
Do you have a sense at this point why the area was so unprepared?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: I think that they were very prepared. This is something that they are very used to. They fight fires all the time.
But they have never seen 100-mile-an-hour winds that are fueling the fire, and those winds and that weather condition is what really impacts, you know, where this fire is going to go, but, more importantly, how they’re able to try to contain it in those first few hours and days.
And because it was in such a populated area, it just makes it that much more challenging to be able to get in there and secure the perimeter, but as well try to save as many homes as possible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of the federal response and the support you’re giving to local authorities, President Biden spoke a few times from the Oval Office this week, and he did mention the need to move power lines underground.
Do you know, were the power lines a cause of any of these blazes?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: Yes, I don’t have any information on the cause, and I think that’s certainly going to be something that’s going to be, you know, under investigation.
But I think, when we think about moving the power lines underground, it’s not just from the cause, but it’s also, how do you keep the power on when we have these severe weather incidents? When you underground them, you create a more resilient community, and it can withstand the impacts of all of these different types of storms, whether it’s fires or hurricanes. And we want to be able to keep these communities energized.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will that be a requirement for any federal support for the rebuild?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: It’s not going to be a requirement for us unless it’s part of their local code, right? And we want to be able to enforce the local codes that they have, and so we’ll work closely with California, also using this as an opportunity.
You know, even if it’s not a requirement, is this something that they want to be able to do? We have additional ways that we can fund that through our programs as they begin the rebuilding.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The governor has indicated he’s looking at a number of executive orders. If local environmental regulations are loosened here in order to help quickly rebuild, does that concern you at all? And will it make it more complicated for people to obtain insurance, which we already know is quite expensive and hard for many Californians to get?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: You know, the insurance piece is a real concern.
We’ve, you know, heard the stories of so many people that have lost their insurance prior to this event. And that’s the number one resource that families have to help with their rebuilding process.
And so what I think we want to be able to do is, we want to be able to work with the governor’s team to rebuild in a way that makes communities more resilient, that keeps insurance companies there, right, that we rebuild in a way that makes them stronger, and reducing the impact, so they want to stay in these communities, and they don’t have to lose the insurance carriers.
We have to be able to work together with the insurance industry to help find ways to – to keep this really valuable resource in place for so many families.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But many of these policies were already canceled months ago, as we’ve been reporting.
So, should the government, though, be in the business of stepping in and helping people rebuild if the private market has deemed these areas just too risky?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: You know, our programs really help jump- start the recovery process. But, without insurance, families are going to have to find other means to be able to rebuild.
But, again, it’s not necessarily just where you rebuild. It’s going to be how. And we want to be able to do things that can encourage families to rebuild their homes in a way that make them more fire-resistant. You know, we have a lot of science and technology out there that shows ways that we can make these homes stronger and more resistant against these fires. That’s really where we need to focus our efforts as we move into the rebuilding phase.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden said that 100 percent of the firefighting costs will be picked up for six months on the federal tab, but there is the separate issue of individual assistance to victims who lost their homes.
We checked, and Congress set the maximum FEMA grant level at just short of $44,000. It’s very expensive living in California. Does that need to be raised? Should Congress do that?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: So, again, our programs aren’t designed to replace insurance. Our programs are designed to jump-start the recovery process.
And we know that in – in many areas, not just California, that, you know, that is not going to be enough to rebuild a home, which is why insurance is so important. We’ll work with other partners. And one of our greatest partners is the Small Business Administration that can do low-interest loans to these families to give them another resource to help rebuild.
We’ll also work with our nonprofit partners, philanthropic partners, bringing the whole society together, so we can work with each family to help them figure out the right tools that they’re going to need and the decisions that they’re going to have to make as they go down this recovery journey.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re describing a really costly enterprise here. I have seen estimates on damages that range from $60 billion to $130 billion. Do you have any ballpark figure at this point?
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because it would seem, according to President Biden, that Congress is going to have to do more.
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: Yes, I don’t have any good estimates right now.
And I think it’s important to remember that these fires are still burning, which means damage is still happening. But the cost for this disaster, both from just the physical infrastructure, but also the economic losses, they’re going to be significant. There’s going to be other programs that congress can work through, like HUD’s Community Development Block Grant for Disaster program, that can also help cover some of the things that FEMA’s programs don’t cover, or other parts of the insurance industry.
There’s a wide variety of different tools and resources that can be used that need to be authorized by Congress to really help this community on this road to recovery.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we appreciate you joining us today to get the message out.
Administrator Criswell, good luck to you.
ADMINISTRATOR DEANNE CRISWELL: Yes, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to California Democratic Congresswoman Judy Chu.
Part of her district has been affected by the Eaton Fire, and she joins us from the Pasadena Convention Center, currently sheltering more than 500 local residents.
Good morning to you, Congresswoman.
I know 11 of these reported deaths were in your community. How are you, and do you know if the community is out of the danger zone at this point?
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU (D-California): It is not out of the danger zone.
We have another Santa Ana gust of winds that will happen Monday or Tuesday. They will be around 50 miles per hour. That is less than what caused this whole terrible catastrophe. Last week, the winds were between 80 to 100 miles per hour. Nonetheless, they could spread the fire.
And I urge all residents to pay attention to the evacuation warnings and orders, and most of all to make sure that they are safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I understand that there were water pressure issues in the Altadena area. There was no local police or fire department. You all rely on the county for that kind of resource.
Do you think, going forward, does this need to change? Have you talked to the governor?
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU: We have been in touch with the governor.
But what I want to do is to assure people that there is enough water. And, in fact, the fire department agencies have assured me that there is enough. But when the fires first happened, there was a combination of drastic winds and the fire. And, as a result, they were overwhelmed. This – this is not an ordinary incident.
And many fire hydrants were going on at the same time, and also the electricity used to pump the water had been turned off, so that there would not spark anymore fires. So, that happened at that point, but I believe that we’re in a good place right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I imagine a lot of the people in that shelter behind you are just wondering when they’ll be able to go and see what’s left of their neighborhoods.
The state of California, as we understand it, put a moratorium Thursday on insurers dropping Californians from – from coverage. But it raises these questions of, are these communities going to be rebuilt and should they be rebuilt?
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU: These communities have to be rebuilt.
I have the beautiful areas of Altadena and Pasadena, and these were vibrant communities, diverse communities with so much historic value behind them. People love these areas. And we need to make sure that there are the resources possible for them to rebuild their homes, as well as the incredible small businesses that are here.
So, this is why, after I took the tour of the devastated areas witness – with our FEMA administrator, I decided to arrange for a tour of our California congressmembers, which took place just yesterday, so that they could see the devastation for themselves. We need to make sure that Congress is ready to provide the help that’s needed to rebuild these areas like Altadena and Pasadena.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of your Republican colleagues went on FOX, Congressman Warren Davidson, and said he’d oppose having an open checkbook approach to a place that, no matter how bad your policies are, would be crazy.
He said it sounds like he wants strings attached to further aid. Have you talked to Republican leadership? Have you talked to Speaker Johnson yet about coming to California?
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU: We are planning to invite Speaker Johnson, as well as President Trump, to come to this area and to witness the devastation for themselves.
We have already been in touch with Republican congressmembers, and they have expressed that they are very open to coming and seeing what is going on. You know, these wildfires don’t have any political affiliation. They don’t belong to any political party.
This devastation has affected thousands upon thousands of people who just ran out of their homes with nothing in their hands and are trying to rebuild. And they need help.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in terms of that help, first, they have to figure out if their insurance covers anything. Then they can go to the federal government for help. But FEMA has a grant limit of $44,000.
It’s Congress that set that limit. Does that need to be raised? And are you hearing from your constituents that they are getting help, they’re able to access these resources?
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU: Well, first of all, I want to say that FEMA is opening a local assistance center on Tuesday, and anybody can walk in or call and get the assistance that they need.
Actually, there are temporary locations too happening even today and tomorrow at the local libraries. FEMA is also here at this Pasadena Convention Center. And so there are many ways in which people can get help. They – of course, what we are encouraging everybody to do is to sign up on DisasterAssistance.gov immediately to get the process going.
Of course, they will have to have their insurance information available.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will see if raising the amount of assistance or what changes to assistance are made in the coming weeks and months.
Congresswoman Chu, thank you, and we wish you and your community the best of luck.
REPRESENTATIVE JUDY CHU: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And if you at home want to help those affected by the wildfires, CBS is partnering with the American Red Cross, which is staffing evacuation centers and providing supplies to people forced out of their homes. To donate, go to RedCross.org/CBS.
And we will be back in one minute with a lot more Face the Nation.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: On Tuesday, the Senate begins consideration of several of the president-elect’s national security nominees.
Our Scott Pelley sat down with outgoing FBI Director Christopher Wray for tonight’s 60 Minutes and talked to him about the challenges facing the new national security team.
Here’s a preview of Scott’s interview and one threat that’s been of particular concern to Director Wray.
(Begin VT)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY (FBI Director): China’s cyber program is by far and away the world’s largest, bigger than that of every major nation combined and has stolen more of Americans’ personal and corporate data than that of every nation, big or small, combined.
But even beyond the cyber theft, there’s another part of the Chinese cyber threat that I think has not gotten the attention publicly that it, I think, desperately deserves. And that is Chinese government’s prepositioning on American civilian critical infrastructure to lie in wait on those networks to be in a position to wreak havoc, and can inflict real-world harm at a time and place of their choosing.
SCOTT PELLEY: The Chinese have already insinuated malware into critical American infrastructure?
DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY: That’s correct.
SCOTT PELLEY: Like what?
DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY: Things like water treatment plants. We’re talking about transportation systems. We’re talking about targeting of our energy sector, the electric grid, natural gas pipelines.
And, recently, we have seen targeting of our telecommunications system.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you can see more from Scott Pelley’s interview with Director Wray tonight on 60 Minutes at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
We turn now to the number two Republican in the Senate, Wyoming’s John Barrasso. He joins us this morning from Casper, Wyoming.
Welcome back to Face the Nation.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO (R-Wyoming): Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a busy week ahead in the Senate.
But, before I get to that business, I do want to ask you about these fires in California. Do you expect that Congress will have to provide an additional aid package? And, if so, when?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: What we’re seeing is heartbreaking. It’s horrible, affecting people, you know, old and young, rich and poor.
Everyone in the Wyoming National Guard is there on the scene helping with manpower as well as equipment. When you see what’s being shown on television, in addition to the tragedy on the ground, you’re also seeing gross mismanagement in California by elected officials.
And it’s heartbreaking to hear the fire chief say that they’ve diverted all of this money away from the fire department to be used for social programs, when they were already stretched too thin. So, yes, I expect there’s going to be hearings. There’s going to be requests of Congress.
There can’t be a blank check on this, however, because people want to make sure that, as rebuilding occurs, as things go on in California, they have to be resilient, so that these sorts of things can’t happen again. And the policies of the liberal administration out there, I believe, have made these fires worse.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you expect, though, that Congress and Republicans will still help these Americans in need, even if they don’t like their local politics in the party?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: I expect that there will be strings attached to money that is ultimately approved, and it has to do with being ready the next time, because this was a gross failure this time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, let me move on to what’s happening this week, because you are the whip. You are the vote-counter. You are watching very closely what these hearings for these picks made by Donald Trump will be like.
Starting Tuesday, 13 of the picks are going to be up for questioning. Leader Thune told us last Sunday he suspects a lot we’ll get through, but we’ll see about all of them.
Which nominees are you certain will be confirmed by January 20?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Well, let’s start with, we were elected, Republicans are now in the House, the Senate and the White House because Americans wanted safety and prosperity.
So you’re right. The rubber hits the road this week with all of these hearings on the Cabinet. And then, when President Trump takes office next Monday, there is going to be shock and awe with executive orders, a blizzard of executive orders, on the economy, as well as on the border.
So, when we met with President Trump just this – earlier this past week, what President Trump said, the number one goal for the Senate needs to be to get his team in place. I have met with just about all of them. I support every one of these nominees. As the whip, my job is to make sure they get across the finish line, get on the job.
And President Trump deserves a team early. Chuck Schumer said he wants to make fireworks at the hearings. If that happens, we are going to work around the clock through the night through weekends to make sure we get that Cabinet confirmed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I want to ask you about some of those picks on the other side of this commercial break, and how many of them will sail through, since you do have the Republican majority and enough votes to do this without Democratic help.
We’ll talk about those specifics in a moment. Stay with us through this break.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Coming up in our next half-hour, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
His new project is Journey to America, a PBS documentary profiling several famous immigrants and their contributions to America, like the late diplomat Henry Kissinger, who fled Germany in 1938.
(Begin VT)
HENRY KISSINGER (Former U.S. Secretary of State): And the circumstances that I had known were a dictatorship that was persecuting people of my ethnic background.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk with the former speaker about that, politics, and get his thoughts on president-elect Trump’s plans for immigration reform.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including the Senate Republican whip, John Barrasso, Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We return to our conversation now with Wyoming Republican Senator John Barrasso.
Senator, you are the whip. You count the votes. Does Pete Hegseth, the pick to run the Pentagon, have them?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Well, he certainly has the qualities that we need to lead the Pentagon. He knows about a fit fighting force. He is very qualified. In my opinion, he has a record – a distinguished record of service in the military.
Every senator gets to speak for themselves, and they will do that. The meetings have gone very well. Things are heading in the right direction. The hearings start Tuesday, and they’re going to be consequential. People will listen and make their own decision. People have already had chances to ask questions, and they’re going to continue to do so. I expect he’s going to have quality answers to the questions that they ask.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, your colleague, Senator Joni Ernst, who is a sexual assault survivor herself, did say last month that she wanted the FBI to vet the claims against Mr. Hegseth that were made by an accuser who said that he raped her. He denies that that assault happened. He claims it was consensual sex despite her filing of that police report.
She also asked that the results be presented to the committee. Is that FBI vetting being shared with members of the Armed Services Committee?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Well, Joni is a warrior. She is a patriot. I know she’s had a chance to meet with the nominee at least twice. And advise and consent is about giving advice, as well as asking consent. She’s going to ask additional questions at the hearing on Tuesday. And she’ll ultimately make her decision.
With regard to the FBI report, it’s reported today that the chairman and the ranking member of the committee have seen the report already. Traditionally, those reports do not get shared with the other members of the committee. That goes back four decades –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Back when, you know, John McCain was chairman of the committee. And I support the chairman in that decision.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s why it is so notable that such a prominent member and other senators are asking to see FBI vetting.
Do you prefer that the details of that sexual assault be disclosed in a public hearing, or would you support that those private investigative details be shared with members at the discretion of the chairman?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Well, the chairman is going to make that decision, and I support the chairman. I also support Pete Hegseth.
If you take a look at the current nominee compared to who’s been in the Pentagon the last four years where they had a woke military, where recruitment went down, morale went down, I think Pete is going to be terrific in terms of recruitment, in terms of morale, in terms of returning America to a fighting force, which is what the American people really want. They want to make sure, if our military is called upon, they’re ready to go, that they are ready to fight, and that with intimidating power.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Just to correct myself, alleged sexual assault.
So, let me ask you about another nominee, or nominee to be. One to run the intelligence community and oversee all the agencies. It appears the only member of Mr. Trump’s national security team that doesn’t have a real scheduled hearing is Tulsi Gabbard. Is it the FBI background check that’s holding things up, or is it the ethics disclosure that’s a problem?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Yes, I support Tulsi Gabbard. She is amazing in that she has been a member of Congress and a combat veteran, a decorated combat veteran for work under fire in Iraq.
You’re right, it’s a paperwork problem right now with the Office of Government Ethics. We had hoped to have the hearing later this week. It looks like it’s going to be the following week. But she continues to have promotions in the military. She’s a lieutenant colonel. She now has top- level security clearances. She is the right person to keep America secure and safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: She took the unusual measure of releasing a public statement reversing some past policy positions she’d taken when it came to surveillance.
Are you concerned that you don’t have enough Republicans who are willing to vote for her?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: I’m not concerned at all about that. Senator Tom Cotton, who’s chairman of the Intelligence Committee, has met with her on numerous occasions. She will have a hearing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: She has to raise her right hand, take an oath at the time. She will be telling the truth.
And the issue that you just raised, which is foreign surveillance, she is now of the mind and the position that is consistent with the chairman of the committee and Republican members of the committee.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned shock and awe on day one of Mr. Trump’s new term with executive orders, but some of this action is also going to require congressional help.
This week, President Biden banned new offshore oil and gas drilling in 625 meters of the – of the ocean – excuse me, miles. Are you going to reverse that in the first reconciliation bill that Leader Thune told us about?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Well, what President Biden just did by executive order, I expect that President Trump will eliminate with executive orders as well.
In terms of the reconciliation bill, we need results. The results are what matters. We were sent here – and President Trump says he doesn’t care if it’s one bill, two bills, three bills, he wants results that we are united, on securing the border, on bringing down costs for American citizens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He wanted –
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: He – across what – we want to make sure that tax cuts don’t – don’t expire. We want to make sure that the country is safe and strong. Those are the issues that the American people elected us to do. That’s what we’re here to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just to follow up there, Mr. Trump has said one big, beautiful bill is what he wants. It seems procedural, but we know from – from the Senate side you would prefer two different reconciliation bills at two different times to tackle some of these big agenda items.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Again –
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you hear that the speaker of the House says it’s got to be one, because he can only get one thing through, doesn’t that underscore just how difficult unified Republican leadership is actually going to be?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: No. Results matter. And we’re united with the results.
And when President Trump met with us for a couple of hours, the senators, this past week, he said, I don’t care how many bills, we just want to get it done. There are urgent needs that I’d like to get addressed immediately.
You – you take a look at what happened this week in the Senate. There was actually bipartisanship because the first bill that we brought to the Senate floor, the Laken Riley bill, was about a wonderful young woman, 22, a nursing student in Georgia who was out for a jog, brutally murdered by an illegal immigrant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Somebody who was a criminal in this country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Should have either been in jail or deported. But he was done – neither of those were done under the Biden administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: We have bipartisan support now even though Chuck Schumer blocked the bill last year.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re going to talk about that with one of the Democratic senators who supported it later on in the program.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Great.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Barrasso, thank you for your time this morning.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who joins us from Tuscan, Arizona.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s going to be a very busy week in the Senate.
Before I get to those confirmation hearings, I want to follow up on what the FBI director told our Scott Pelley there in describing some of the Chinese hacking and what incoming national security adviser Mike Waltz called cyber time bombs throughout U.S. infrastructure.
What needs to happen? What do the consequences need to be for China having done this and remaining in our infrastructure?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, we’ve got to be strong in standing up to them and explaining to them and, in some cases, I think, consequences need to be serious. There are things that we can do. We have the tools. But I would say, even beyond that, we’ve got to figure out a way to get them off of the infrastructure.
With regards to the telecom system, multiple companies, you know, Chinese, cyber, software, are currently on those systems. And we’re working to try to fix this. Some of this is going to require that the – the telecom companies upgrade their infrastructure that could be costly. We’re currently working with them to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s pretty incredible that this espionage happened in the first place and expelling them is so hard to do.
I want to also ask you about another Chinese question, and that has to do with TikTok, because the attorney for the company said they will go dark next Sunday unless the Supreme Court intervenes and stops this national security law from taking effect or delays it, as Mr. Trump has asked the court to do. What do you think is going to happen here?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, based on the oral argument in the case two days ago, it looks like the Supreme Court – I mean I don’t really want to speculate, but it does look like they’re going to uphold the law that we pass.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: So, I think on the 19th, so one day before – before the inauguration, you know, TikTok, on our systems, on our servers, become something that’s now been banned by Congress. So, I imagine there’s going to be a disruption in the service here, you know, starting on the 19th.
I know this is controversial. I know there are folks out there that earn a living, you know, on TikTok. But it has a national security risk to it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: You know, one is the data. One of the risks. The thing that I’m more concerned about is their ability to manipulate the population of the United States, especially in time of a conflict.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: So, it was the right decision. I voted for it. And it looks like the Supreme Court is going to uphold the legislation that we passed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll track that story.
I want to follow up on something Senator Barrasso brought up, which was the Laken Riley Act. You say you support this. It’s a bill that would require federal authorities to detain undocumented immigrants charged with theft- related crimes rather than releasing them on parole. This bill was introduced last Congress. It didn’t go anywhere. Was it wrong for Democrats not to take it up? Was it election year politics that made Democrats concerned about bringing it forward?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, in the last year we’ve been working with Republicans on bipartisan border security, legislation, with the hope of getting that passed, and then moving on to comprehensive immigration reform.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think we could do that. I think there’s a lot of – you know, there’s – you know, there’s an effort. I think that’s going to continue. You know, right now, this is certainly bipartisan. I voted for cloture on the, you know, motion to start talking about it. And, ultimately, I’ll vote to – to pass it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. But do you regret not doing that – taking that position earlier?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well –
MARGARET BRENNAN: If Democrats were more muscular on this issue, which was such a live issue during the campaign.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I mean, the Laken Riley Act is very specific.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I mean it does one specific thing. We were working on something that was much more comprehensive, money for border patrol agents and hiring and infrastructure, policy changes. And policy changes, you know, you really have to do in a bipartisan way. We can’t do that through the reconciliation process you were talking about.
So, there is – you know, I think there’s – there’s going to be an effort ongoing. This is bipartisan. You’re right, we didn’t do this a year ago. You know, maybe we should have. But we were working on bipartisan border security legislation. We weren’t able to get that across the finish line. I hope we can do that in this Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to get to two of the – two of the picks here. You sit on the Armed Services Committee. Typically, only the ranking and chairs of the committees get to see the FBI background check on a nominee. But as you know, many senators are asking for more information on Pete Hegseth here.
Do you have any information from the ranking member of the committee, from Senator Reid, that you will get access or get any information from that FBI background check?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Margaret, let me just start by saying, there is not a job that’s more serious and more critical to our national security than secretary of defense. And we need a qualified individual in that job. And he just does not seem to have the qualifications.
And then on top of that, you look at his personal conduct, especially when he was managing Veterans for Freedom and Concerned Veterans of America. You know, these two organizations were financially mismanaged. There was reports of being intoxicated on the job and creating an environment, you know, where there was, you know, some issues with, you know, sexual harassment.
So, I think it’s in the nominee, Mr. Hegseth’s best interests, if he wants to be confirmed for this job, for us to have all the information. You know, the information from these organizations, but also the FBI background check. Right now, as you say, the chairman and the ranking member are going to get it. That’s an agreement with the White House.
But there has been exceptions made in the past for certain nominees. This clearly – because it is bipartisan. Like a – you know, across the aisle, folks want to see the FBI background check. I think we should get an opportunity to take a look at it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
“The New York Times” is reporting that your – that the ranking member had been briefed as of Friday. Are – you’re saying no information has been shared?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Do you think it will be before Tuesday when the hearing –
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Not yet. I don’t know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think, you know, we will have an opportunity. You know, I’ll talk to the ranking member. And I also talked to the chairman about this, about his nomination in general. More so the discussion I had with Roger Wicker was about just meeting with Mr. Hegseth.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Y Es.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: We’ve reached out to him multiple times, have not been able to schedule a meeting in my office, and he’s not meeting with any other Democrats on the committee other than the ranking member.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Right.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: More information is better. If – if he wants to be confirmed for this job –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think it’s in our best interest to have everything put out on the table.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re on the Intelligence Committee. Former Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, she is controversial as well. Republican Senator Capito was on Fox today and said, when she privately met with Tulsi Gabbard, she pressed her on that 2017 trip to Syria that came in the wake of a chemical weapons attack carried out by dictator Bashar al Assad against civilians. Gabbard told her, she said, that she didn’t even know she was going to Syria, that she intended to go to Lebanon on the scheduled visit and ended up in Syria. Is that a credible answer?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I talked to Congresswoman Gabbard this week, met with her in my office. We talked about the trip to Syria. She didn’t tell me that part. I mean I think it’s kind of unusual that you wind up in one place that wasn’t part of the plan.
But what concerns me more, especially about that trip, is, it was common knowledge that Assad was gassing the civilian population, using chemical weapons against the population multiple times. And she didn’t argue about those. But she took the time and the effort to make a case that there were two cases. And she used, you know, experts that were not credible to try to – try to prove that he was not using chemical weapons in those two instances.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And I have a hard time understanding why you would want to do that, to use your political capital to try to prove something when there are multiple cases.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And, you know, on top of that, when you look at, you know, what’s – what, in Russia, with misinformation –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: She does seem to have a predilection for misinformation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well –
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And for not having –
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll see.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Presenting a case that isn’t strong and not listening to the intelligence community.
MARGARET BRENNAN: My producer is yelling in my ear. I’ve got to go. Senator, I’m so sorry to cut you off.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: OK.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But we will see when the hearing gets scheduled.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: All right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Naples, Florida, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who has a new documentary airing on PBS “Coming to America.” It examines how nine remarkable American immigrants have shaped our country’s history.
Welcome to FACE THE NATION.
NEWT GINGRICH (Former U.S. House Speaker): Good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In this documentary, you tell the stories of these individuals who immigrated to the U.S. And they were very successful people, like Albert Einstein.
You know, when you look at Einstein and you look at Henry Kissinger, they were refugees to this country. Donald Trump set refugee admissions at very low levels first term. He’s talking about block refugee admissions this term. Is that a mistake?
NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I think – I think we’re going through a period of, frankly, reacting to an extraordinarily disastrous immigration policy, so you’re going to have some twists and turns. In the long run, we do want to have an ability to allow legitimate refugees to come here. We also, and part of the reason Callista and I made this documentary for PBS is, we really believe strongly that legal immigrants are a major contribution to America’s success and to its exceptional nature. And we want to make sure that, you know, as many Americans favor legal immigration as oppose to illegal immigration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
NEWT GINGRICH: It’s very important to distinguish the two. And we want to strongly communicate that legal immigration in a variety of forms, refugees is one, another is various work permits, but we want people to be able to come to America if they do so legally.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You said immigrants inhabit the very soul of what it is to be an American. When you say legitimate refugees, what do you mean?
NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I think people can stand up and say, I have now decided I’m a refugee, I feel threatened. The question is, is it true or not? Are they really threatened? Or, in fact, is that just their way of getting into the United States?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Claim asylum, you mean?
NEWT GINGRICH: To claim asylum.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re –
NEWT GINGRICH: I think there’s a big – there’s a big difference between somebody who genuinely faces a potential loss of life or freedom and somebody who simply wants to come to America and decides to claim that status.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Economic migrants there.
Let me ask you, someone else you feature in here, Zalmay Khalilzad, a very prominent Afghan American who brokered Trump’s deal with the Taliban to exit Afghanistan. As you know with that chaotic exit, there were tens of thousands of Afghans scattered, some of them still separated from their families. Many of them worked for the U.S. government.
Should Mr. Trump extend the legal process of this program and bring those Afghans here? And would you ask Congress to raise the current cap they have on the number of them coming?
NEWT GINGRICH: You know, I think the Afghan refugees who actively fought on the side of Americans, saved American lives, tried to help win against the Taliban, I think they deserve an unusual level of support and treatment. And I worked all during the period of President Biden’s insanely disastrous withdrawal. I tried to work with various people and did podcasts with people who were trying to get folks out of Afghanistan who should legitimately have been helped by the U.S. government.
So, you know, when somebody’s totally your ally, and this happened with the Vietnamese in the Vietnamese war. When somebody’s totally your ally and they risk their lives side-by-side with you, you shouldn’t abandon them. All right, that’s a pretty straightforward rule.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, one of the things the Biden administration blamed the Trump administration for was the difficulty in making those fast arrangements to bring those Afghans here. And that’s a story for another day. But the person they put their finger on as making it more difficult is Steven Miller, who is now the top policy adviser to Mr. Trump. He did add new requirements to visas, other things that made it harder to legally come here. Have you spoken to him about some of your concerns?
NEWT GINGRICH: No. I know Steven very well.
Look, so Steven was responding to a disastrous level of immigration that’s not sustainable. And I think that’s – I think virtually every American agrees, you can’t have an open border, you can’t have Venezuelan gangs, for example, or El Salvadorans gangs. I mean there are a lot of good reasons. And you’re going to get some overreaction, but it’s an overreaction, frankly, caused by people like President Biden who were totally irresponsible in allowing people into this country by the millions in a way that was totally illegal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
NEWT GINGRICH: I mean it was outside the law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Pardon me, I don’t know if our viewers heard that there was an alarm that went off here so it interrupted some of what you said there.
Donald Trump has chosen your wife, Callista, who helped make this documentary with you, to be the next ambassador to Switzerland. Are you advising the president-elect in any capacity right now?
NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I chat with him and I certainly chat with members of the team. I’ve had a long experience as a Republican activist.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
NEWT GINGRICH: And on some things like getting through the tax cut bill, I work with everybody in the House, Senate and the White House.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Speaker – thank you very – former speaker, I should say. Thank you for your time.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week.
For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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